Corrections to K S B Keats-Rohan's, "Domesday Descendants"
Version: 8.0 Last updated: 3 Mar 2011
"Married Mabel or Matilda, daughter of William II Mauduit (cf. Rot. De Dom. 38-39), by whom he had issue Haimo, Basilia, Amice."
Haimo and Mabel also had four other children – Ala, wife of William de Echingham; William (d.s.p.1248), successor of Haimo his brother; Alan (d. 1248) who briefly succeeded William his elder brother leaving a son and heir John fitz Alan (d.1274); and a daughter who was a nun at Delapre Abbey.
Elvey (1975), p. xlii
He married Ela widow of William de Warenne III whose date of death is given as 1147. The date of William’s death is correctly given as 1148 on p.240 under Comes de Warenne, Willelm III.
"He died in 1159 leaving two daughters and coheiresses, Amabel wife of William Neville and Matilda, wife first of Adam de Montbegon, and then of Gerard de Glanville."
Matilda, daughter of Adam fitz Swain was married three times. By Adam de Montbegon who died before 1172, she had issue Roger de Montbegon d.s.p. 1227. Her second husband was John Malherbe of Appleby, Lincs. d.1181, by whom she had three children - John Malherbe d.s.p. bef 1216; Mabel, wife of William de Lemare; and Clemence, wife of Eudes de Longviliers. Maud married thirdly Gerard de Glanvill but had no issue by him. A succession of charters to the monastery of Monk Bretton, which Adam fitz Swein founded, indicates that her eventual heirs were by her second husband John Malherbe - her grandchildren, Mabel de Lemare, wife of Geoffrey de Nevill, and John de Longviliers.
Adrian Channing, Rosie Bevan
"Son of Bertram I Haget and brother of Bertram II, both of whom he had succeeded by c.1165/71. Married Alice, daughter of William of Friston, by whom he had issue Geoffrey (d.v.p.), Ralph, abbot of Fountains (1170-90), Agnes wife of Alan fitz Brien of Bedale, Gundreda, Alice, wife of Jordan de St. Mary, Lucy, wife of Peter fitz Toret."
A discussion of gifts by Gundreda Haget and others to Fountains abbey, ends with the statement (re: Add. MS. 18276, f. 228d) that,
'At an earlier date Matthew de Brame had released to Geoffrey Haget all claim to the inheritance of Geoffrey Haget, uncle of the said Geoffrey.' [EYC, 1: 403, no. 520]
This infers a relationship between the two Geoffrey Hagets as uncle and nephew. Confirmation of this is found in a charter for Gundreda Haget's gift to Sinningthwaite of the advowson of the church of Bilton, Yorks., in which she refers to Bertram Haget as her father. It is therefore clear that Gundreda Haget and her siblings were children of Bertram II Haget, not of his brother Geoffrey.
John Ravilious, Rosie Bevan
"Brother of Hugh Malebisse, a Yorkshire tenant of the honour of Mowbray. By his wife Emma, a natural daughter of William de Percy, he had issue Richard, Geoffrey, William, Hugh and Amice, wife of Stephen of Blagby. He died in 1176".
This version of the Malebisse family is at odds with the pedigree by Farrer of the Malebisse family given in EYC, 3: 456, which is confirmed by details from Byland abbey charters:
W. Brown. Cartularium Prioratus de Gyseburne .Durham : Surtees Society II: 60-64, 1894.
“He died in 1169, leaving a son Gilbert (d.1194) by his wife Eugenia Picot, daughter of Ralph Picot of Kent.”
Chronology makes it unlikely that Gilbert was son of Eugenia given that her age was stated to be around 30 in 1085 i.e. born around 1055 and would have been about 14 at her first husband’s death. As Gilbert witnessed the 1174 treaty between Henry II and William, King of Scotland, he was clearly acting in the capacity of an adult by this time, thus a son of a former wife of William Malet. He certainly does not appear as a minor in the 1085 Rotuli de Dominabus et Pueris et Puellis, as would be expected if heir of Eugenia – apart from which the Picot inheritance of Tong, and Kingsdown in Kent held in chief, passed down the line of Eugenia’s second husband, Thomas Fitz Bernard.
Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, IV, p. 14, no. VI - should be vol. V
"…he left issue his successor a son Walchelin II (d.c.1190) and a daughter and eventual heiress Alice, wife of Geoffrey I de Say (d. 1214)".
"…his heir was his aunt Alice, sister of Walchelin I and wife of Geoffrey I de Say (d. 1214)".
The wife of Geoffrey de Say I was actually Alice de Chesney, whose parentage was established by Round, from comments in Dugdale's Baronage, based on the cartulary of Coxford (Norfolk). These showed that Alice, the wife of Geoffrey de Say, and Emma, the wife of Michael Belet, were daughters and coheirs of John de Chesney.
Evidently, the Says' interest in the Maminot lands came through this John de Chesney. John was the son of Ralph de Chesney and the grandson of another Ralph, a Domesday tenant. The cartulary of Merton Priory records that Hugh Maminot [the grandfather of Walkelin] gave the manor of Petham (Kent) to Ralph de Chesney in marriage with his daughter Alice. Chronologically, this would be John's father rather than his grandfather. So Geoffrey de Say succeeded Walkelin Maminot as a result of his marriage to the granddaughter of Walkelin's aunt.
Dugdale, Monasticon, IV, pp. 95-97 - should be vol. V
Round, 1902, p.9, citing Dugdale, 1817-30, 1: 511, 614; HKF, 3: 316, prints an extract from Dugdale's notes from the cartulary (Bodleian, Dugdale MS 39, f. 103.); Salzman, 1924, pp.21-22, citing Cotton MS Cleopatra C VI, no 69. Salzman points out that, according to a manuscript from Lewes Priory, Ralph was predeceased by a wife named Emma (Dugdale, 1817-30, 5: 14); DD, p.369 says that Ralph's wife was Emma Maminot, apparently assuming that these wives were identical and that the Merton cartulary is mistaken about the name.
Mardi Carter; Chris Phillips
Richard was a close relation, probably brother, of Ralph Murdac, whose wife was Eva de Grey, as Richard and his heirs held land in Black Bourton, which Eva had brought to the marriage. Richard married Denise, daughter and co heiress of Hugh de Gundeville and Agnes de Falaise, who brought the hamlet of Alkerton in Eastington, Gloucestershire to the marriage, and with whom he had three daughters and co-heiresses, Denise, Margery and Florence
Bevan (2010), FND 3: 195-197
“Alleged to have been son of Henry I’s chaplain John of Bayeux and grandson of Odo bishop of Bayeux, the identification reposes on a weak chain of supposition and cannot be accepted with complete confidence.”
There is stronger evidence in a charter for Saint-Fromond indicating that Robert du Hommet was "nepos Odonis episcopi", probably grandson
Power, Henry, Duke of the Normans 1149/50-1189, p 110 note 1
"…Sarah, Agnes’ daughter by her first husband Halenald II de Bidun."
Halenald is stated to be Agnes’ first husband, when in fact, as correctly stated on p.325, he was her second.
“…his heir was his son William, who was succeeded 1147/48 by his sisters Matilda of Dover, Alice Pecche, Rose de Harcourt and her daughter Albreda Trussebut.”
The fourth sister and coheir, Ascelina wife of Geoffrey de Waterville, has inadvertently been omitted – see p.1065.
“His heiress was his daughter Eugenia, wife first of William Malet of Curry Malet (d.1169) and secondly of Thomas fitz Bernard.”
Eugenia was one of three heiresses of Ralph Picot, the others being Alice (said to be wife of Gilbert Malet), her elder sister, and Agnes wife of Trihan de Bidun (p.326) younger son of Halenald de Bidun (p.325). The latter had a son Ralph who died without issue, his heir being his cousin William de Ros, son of Trihan’s sister, Sybil.
"…born 4 March 1133...". All other sources give that Henry was born on 5 March 1133.
Stuart Baldwin: The Henry Project: http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/henry002.htm
"Son of Walter IIII Tirel of Poix…"
This is a typographical error and should read "Son of Walter III Tirel of Poix…"
"[He left issue] two daughters Eleanor, wife of Alexander fitz Richard, and Matilda, son of Fulk fitz Richard."
Presumably the latter is meant to be "Matilda, wife of Fulk fitz Richard".
Henry Sutliff III